Paisley: Hi everybody, Paisley imperfect here again today. And
we're gonna jump right in today, because I think today might go a
little long. We are. I know that I've mentioned that before. But
I love to talk about the plan of salvation. I love it. Some call
it the plan of happiness. And I'm hoping that that is the way
that we will feel about it when we're when I'm done with this
episode. Because I want to focus on the happiness that comes from
knowing at least part of the plan, because I just want to
focus on one part of it today, we could talk for hours and
hours and hours about the plan. And someday when I get a website
set up, have a whole page all just about what we know about
the plan. But for today, I just I'm hoping that you'll bear with
me as I share some of the things that I've learned over the
years.
And I want to focus on the part of the plan today that comes
between death and resurrection. So what happens to us after we
die, before we are resurrected, I don't know if you remember,
but a couple of episodes ago, I was talking about having the
constant companionship with the Holy Ghost. And I read a talk by
President iring called the Holy Ghost as your companion. And I
shared this quote, he said we need the constant help from the
companionship of the Holy Ghost. for yet another reason, the
death of a loved one may come unexpectedly, it is the witness
from the Holy Ghost of the reality of a loving Heavenly
Father, and a resurrected Savior that gives us hope and comfort
at the loss of a loved one. That testimony must be fresh when
death occurs.
Ever since I read that, for some reason, in that talk, it just
felt like it kind of stuck out like almost like it didn't fit.
That's how it felt when I first read it, and so ever since I
shared it ever since I read it and then I shared it. It just
kind of stuck in my head and stuck in my heart. And then a
couple of days after that I was reading the Book of Mormon with
my oldest daughter. It's part of our bedtime routine. We read a
little bit of the Book of Mormon and then we read a chapter or
two from a novel together. And so I was reading the Book of
Mormon with my oldest daughter, and it was Saturday night. And
we've been trying to keep up with the Come follow me
curriculum, but we got a little bit ahead. And so spoiler alert,
if you're keeping up with the Come follow me curriculum, I'm
about to do I'm about to give you a little bit of a spoiler, I
think it comes next week. It's in chapter 40. When we get to
chapter 40, ALMA, the younger is talking to his son, Corianton.
And he's, he tells him a little bit about the spirit world.
So the spirit world is where we go, where our soul goes, where
our spirit goes, after we die, and before resurrected, that
space in between those two events. And so we were reading
in Alma, chapter 40. And I'm just gonna read verses 11 and
12, and 14. And so this is again, this is Alma talking to
his son, Corianton and Corianton was not his righteous son.
Corianton wasn't that great of a guy. And so Alma, I was just
kind of telling him like, Hey, I prayed about this. Here's what I
know.
He said, Now concerning the state of the soul, between death
and the resurrection, behold, it has been made known unto me by
an angel, that the spirits of all men, as soon as they are
departed from this mortal body. Yay, the spirits of all men. And
women, whether they be good or evil, are taken home to that God
who gave them life. And then it shall come to pass that the
spirits of those who are righteous are received into a
state of happiness, which is called Paradise, a state of
rest, a state of peace, where they shall rest from all their
troubles and from all care and sorrow. And now verse 14, now
this is the state of the souls of the wicked, yay, in darkness
and a state of awful, fearful looking, awful, fearful looking
for the fiery indignation of the wrath of God upon them. Thus,
they remain in this state, as well as the righteous and
Paradise until the time of their resurrection.
So, according to Alma, when we die, our soul and our body are
separated. And our soul goes to depending if we were righteous,
or just we go to Paradise, place of rest and rest from all of our
troubles and cares and sorrow, place of peace a state of rest.
If we are wicked, Some darkness, awful fearful looking for the
fiery indignation of God.
So my daughter, and I read that together. And that kind of stuck
with me not so much with her. She seven, not so much with her.
She had a couple of questions. It was an interesting
conversation. But then also, I mentioned that we read a novel
together. And we were just finishing up her first ever
Nancy Drew book, which childhood favorite of mine. They're a
little dated. So it was kind of an interesting thing. But we had
just finished up a Nancy Drew book, and I asked her, which
book do you want to pick, we have a pile of books, probably a
good two feet deep of books that we have found that we really
want to read together. And so she grabbed one of the books off
the stack, and it's called Missing may, I'd never heard of
it before. I'm honestly not even sure where it came from, or how
we ended up with it. But it's, it was also about death. It's
about a little girl. She's six, she was six years old when her
her parents died. And she kind of got passed around from family
to family in Ohio. And then her Aunt May and Uncle Ob came and
picked her up and essentially adopted her. And then took her
to northern West Virginia, where she lived with them until she
was 12. And then her aunt Mae died. And the book is about,
we're only about halfway through. But the book is about
how this girl and her uncle, kind of find each other again,
find each other and find peace find themselves find themselves
again, because her aunt Mae was such a huge part of their lives.
And so I had all of these three things hit me kind of within
just a couple of days. And I said something to my husband
that night, Saturday night, and I was like, I feel like, I feel
like death is following me. I don't know, I don't know what is
going on. But it just for some reason, in all of these things
that I'm reading, death is just kind of standing out to me. I
didn't feel like I don't know, I don't really I didn't really
understand what I was feeling. I'm still not sure what it
means. I'm hoping that just it being in the back of my mind.
I'm I'm hoping that maybe I just needed to do an episode about
it. I don't know.
The next morning at church, Sunday morning at church, we
found out that a guy in our ward was in a pretty bad accident on
Saturday and actually passed away. We weren't especially
close to him. I saw him every Tuesday when we would show up at
the church right around the same time. Because he his calling was
to work with a little activity dudes. We call them the boys
between ages eight and 11. Their twice monthly activities on
Tuesday nights. And so I would see him sometimes at the church
on Tuesdays. He didn't come to church on Sundays, he would come
every once in a while if there was like somebody coming home
from a mission or somebody leaving to go on a mission. He
served with my husband in scouts for a while. He just everybody
knew him and everybody loved him because he was so friendly. He
was so nice. He would just was like this. Like an all star he
just you couldn't help but like him. He was a chef. He was a
spear fisherman. He was a diver. He did all of these really
awesome things like he was the kind of person that you just you
wanted to associate with because he did so many cool things. You
just wanted to hear about him. You wanted to hear all the
stories.
Now, I'm not. I am not claiming that the spirit was trying to
tell me that he or anybody else was going to die. Like I said
before, I don't know why these things have been standing out to
me. I have no idea. I don't know his by his wife very well at
all. I don't think I've seen her in a while. I'm sure I haven't
seen her in a while. I don't know his kids very well. He has
a son and a daughter and his daughter. She was older than the
group that I was teaching in young women's and so I just I
never really got to know her very well. But anyway, so this
this is just it's been on my mind. And so I wanted to talk
about it. And I wanted to like what else do we know about the
spirit world? So my friend, where is he? I mean, I think
he's in a state of rest.
I hope he's, I hope he's resting somewhere. First, we all could
use a little rest, right? But in the temple prep, so I taught, I
did a stint as a temple prep teacher too. And in the temple
prep teachers manual, by the way, you all have access to that
online in case you didn't know. If you go to libraries, and then
you go to what was that, again, you go to libraries, and then
you go to gospel library. And you go to, I think it's Yeah,
books and lessons. And then there's temple prep. So in the
temple prep book, in the very first lesson of the temple prep
book, there is a there's a diagram. It's a, it's a, there's
a diagram about the plan of salvation, but it's not the one
that we're used to. It's not the one that shows like, the
premortal life, it doesn't have pictures. It has little boxes
that you can write scriptures in. And then the answer key is
at the bottom, in case you needed it.
But in so in the temple prep book about death and the
resurrection, it says, we're about the spirit world. Rather,
it says when we die, our spirits enter the spirit world and our
bodies remain on earth. This period of separation continues
until the time of our resurrection, the spirits of the
righteous are received into a state of peace and happiness,
which is called Paradise. The spirits of the wicked are placed
in a state of darkness, which sometimes is referred to as a
prison. We got that from Alma right, then. So I don't know if
you guys are familiar with tags, you can tag articles and things,
when you're studying them either on your phone, on your tablet,
online, you can create tags, and I think I've mentioned this
before, but I have a whole bunch of tags. And because I like the
plan of salvation, so much I tag things plan of salvation. And
then I try and like sub tag them, like which part of the
plan of salvation is this from. And I only had two for the
spirit world, I had one from the temple prep book that I just
shared. And then the other one that I had was for this talk
from President oaks in October of 2019, called trust in the
Lord.
And he talks, he lays out everything we know about the
spirit world, everything we know, you, it's for sure, we're
thrilled, I'll make sure it's linked in the show notes. So you
can get to it pretty quickly if you want to. Otherwise, you can
just go to the church's website and type in trust in the Lord
and October 2019. President oaks. So I'm only going to share
a few points. But he says he points out what we've what we've
already talked about what we read about in Alma, that there's
a division between the righteous and the wicked. And then he
tells us that the scriptures quote, also describe how some
faithful spirits teach the gospel to those who have been
wicked or rebellious. Most important, modern Revelation
reveals that the work of salvation goes forward in the
spirit world. And although we are urged not to procrastinate
or repentance during mortality, we are taught that some
repentance is possible there. Some repentance is possible
there.
And to be completely honest, I almost kept that out of this
because we have to be very, very careful about procrastinating or
repentance. And I don't want to I didn't want to include it with
the fear that people will be like, Oh, I have time. Well,
sure you have time. But some repentance is possible there. So
just be careful.
And then he talks about how all in the spirit world are under
some form of bondage. And I remember I remember when he gave
this talk, I was just like, glued to the TV. And then
reading this again, when I got to that part, I was like, Wait a
second, all in the spirit world are under some form of bondage.
What about the people in paradise? What are the What
about the people who are resting? Right? Are they really
in some form of bondage?
And he said, the spirit world bondage that applies to
righteous converted Souls is their need to await and perhaps
even be allowed to prompt the performance of their proxy
ordinances on Earth, so they can be baptized and enjoy the
blessings of the Holy Ghost.
So two things that I want to point out in that statement
number one, people who have not been baptized, confirmed,
received their endowment been sealed to their spouse or sealed
to their parents can still also can still also can also be
considered righteous. Believe it or not, just because someone
like Mother Teresa wasn't baptized into the church of
Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints while she was alive, does
not make her unrighteous. righteous people are still
waiting for their ordinances to be done. And that is That that
is their form of bondage.
Okay. Now, the second thing that I want to point out in that
statement is that this is why temple work is so important. We
do temple work to release them from those bonds. We do temple
work so that they can be released from those bonds and go
help teach. And he mentioned that in his talk to, you should
for sure go read it.
Now the bondage for the wicked, he says, The wicked also suffer
and additional bondage. Because of unrepented sins, they are in
what the Apostle Paul referred to as spirit prison. These
spirits are described as bound, or as captives, or as cast out
into outer darkness with weeping and wailing and gnashing of
teeth as they await resurrection and judgment. There will still
be there will still be people who will reject the opportunity
to receive their ordinances. That's their choice. Our
heavenly Father is never going to take away our agency. That's
part of who we are. So they're just not going to be happy. And
that's it.
That's it. That's all we know about the spirit world.
President oaks lays it all out. And then he says, that's what we
know.
But I'm not quite done yet. Because there's more in this
talk that I think is critical for us to know and to understand
about this topic, but it applies on a more broad spectrum. He
talks about how lots of people have had near death experiences
or like they died for a few minutes, and they came back.
They've had inspirations, they've had personal experiences
with the spirit world. But he also reminds us what it takes
for things like that to become an actual church doctrine. And
this is where we have to be very, very careful. He quotes
two other apostles, Elder Christofferson, an elder
Anderson, and in my my own opinion, I feel like he's
quoting these other two so that he can be like out of the mouth
of three witnesses. You have now heard what it takes for
something to become church doctrine.
So he he quotes Elder Christofferson as saying, Excuse
me, it should be remembered. Excuse me, so okay, sorry, Elder
Christofferson said, quote, it should be remembered that not
every statement made by a church leader, past or present,
necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly
understood in the church that a statement made by one leader on
a single occasion, often represents a personal, the well
considered opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the
whole church. Now think about it for just a second, things that
apply to us in the United States. Some of the ways some of
the ways in which we are allowed to worship don't apply
worldwide. So if somebody's speaking to us here and telling
us, we need to go next door, and talk to our next door neighbor
and preach the gospel to them, they can't do that. In countries
like China. They can't go next door and teach the gospel to
their neighbor, they have to wait to be approached. least
that's the way it was the last time I heard. So somebody's
saying something in a stake conference down here in Southern
California may not apply to the way that something needs to be
done. Up in Canada, or over in Africa. It doesn't become
official or binding for the whole church.
Then he quotes elder Anderson as saying, quote, The doctrine is
taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and quorum of
the 12. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk.
And then he gives the family proclamation as an example. It's
was signed by all 15 members of the First Presidency and quorum
of the 12 apostles when it was written, church doctrine.
And then he tells us what we can do when we have questions that
we can't find actual doctrine about. He states it specifically
about questions regarding the spirit world. That's what he's
talking about in this talk. But he, I think it applies. I think
it applies more generally. He says, quote, for all questions
about the spirit world, I would suggest two answers.
Number one, first, remember that God loves His children, and will
surely do what is best for each of us. Second, remember this
familiar Bible teaching which has been most helpful to On a
multitude of unanswered questions. Okay, newsflash,
President Oaks has on unanswered questions. If President Oaks has
unanswered questions, what does that say about our on our
unanswered questions? I'm just saying, okay, so he quotes
Proverbs chapter three, trust in the Lord with all thine heart
and lean not unto thine own understanding, in all thy ways
acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. And then just
in case we need a little bit more, he also quotes Nephi. In
second Nephi, Chapter Four Nephi said, Oh, Lord, I have trusted
in thee, and I will trust in the Forever I will not put my trust
in the arm of flesh.
I used to tell my seminary kids and my young women, when you
have a question that you can't find an answer to write it down.
One of the jobs of the Holy Ghost is to bring all things to
our remembrance, right? If we write down a question, I even
one year even gave my seminary kids little notebooks. Take this
home, this is your book of questions. When you have a
question, you can't find an answer to you write it down in
this book. And you just keep these you keep those questions
going your whole life, at some point in your life, some of
these questions you will find answers to, and you can cross
them out, because now you know the answer to that question.
Some of them you might not. We may never know more about the
spirit world until we actually get there. So write your
questions down. And allow the Holy Ghost time to teach you the
answers. Allow him the opportunity to help you find
them in your personal scripture study.
We have to be very careful about what we teach and what we share
with others personal revelation does not necessarily apply
across the board. President oaks also said quote, we can all
wonder privately about circumstances in the spirit
world, or even discussed these or other unanswered questions in
family or other intimate settings. But let us not teach
or use as official doctrine, what does not meet the standards
of official doctrine, and he just gave us the standards.
Remember, it has to be taught by all 15 members of the First
Presidency and quorum of the 12 continuing his quote, to do so
does not further the work of the Lord and may even discourage
individuals from seeking their own comfort, or edification,
through the personal revelation. The Lord's plan provides for
each of us. excessive reliance on personal teachings or
speculations may even draw us aside from concentrating on
learning, and efforts that will further our understanding and
help us go forward on the covenant path.
So we need to be careful. We need to learn how to recognize
the Holy Ghost when He speaks to us. And then when he does, we
need to trust in those promptings and also make sure
that we are still living within church doctrine. I hope that
makes sense. Because that's a really, that's a really deep
point. And it's a hang up for a lot of people. We don't know
everything, we don't have all the answers, we probably aren't
going to get them in this life.
We have to put some trust and faith in our Heavenly Father and
in our Savior, we have to, it's, that's part of the plan. They
love us. And they will always do what's best for us. We have to
trust that we may not understand right now today, why they're
leading us down a certain path. But we can no later, I can't
remember if I've shared this, I think I shared it. But maybe
you'll remember a few years ago when elder Holland was speaking.
And he was he was sharing the story about I think it was him
and his dad. And they went out on this dirt road. And they got
they got kind of lost. They knew where they were until the road
forked. And then they were like, we don't remember which way to
go. And so they said a prayer and they felt like they were
supposed to go in this one direction. I'm just gonna say
off to the left. They felt like they needed to go in this, they
needed to go on the left fork. So they took the left fork and
they took it for like an hour. And then it just dead ended. And
And I'm going to use this one last quote from the very And
they were like, What the? Why would he tell us to go on the
it's the second to the last paragraph in President Oakes
wrong road. So then they have to go back to the fork and then
talk. He's he tells us what our responsibility is. He says the
duty of each of us is to teach the doctrine of the restored
take the other fork and the other fork went for a lot
gospel. Keep the commandments, love and help one another and do
longer. And he obviously I'm paraphrasing, but he says How
the work of salvation in the holy temples. That's it. So now
have they not taken the wrong one? They would have started to
you know everything that we know about the spirit world, as has
been revealed church wide. And what our responsibility is,
question themselves once they were on the right one. We have
trust in our Heavenly Father, teach the doctrine of the
gospel, keep the commandments love one another, love one
to learn to trust our Heavenly Father and trust our Savior and
another and help each other and do the work of salvation, the
follow follow their direction. It's not our job to know
Holy Temple. And so with that, I'm just gonna say go and do.
Thank you, everybody for being here. Have a great week.
everything. It's our job to trust.